BMW got flamed in the Wall Street Journal !

[Derek A.]

Anyone have online access to post the article ??

[bfd]

http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/m-lounge/6111030-1.html

Its interesting that for just about every other model, the roadfly board is "the" board.....

[Kalevera]

Makes me cry, really.

They do need to fire Mr. Bangle; from this dilettante's viewpoint, he has done little to further the cause, stylistically or otherwise.

In my business, when you don't produce results, you get fired. I don't think BMW's idea of results were negative sales. Where are Uncle Fritz and Grandpa Klaus when you need them?

BTW - anyone know who designed the e32/e34?

LOWELL

[tim]

"BTW - anyone know who designed the e32/e34?"

Paul Bracq was BMW's design chief for the first generation of the 5 series. The original designer on the 5's, when they were redesigned from the 3.0, was a guy named Marcello Gandini. I do not know whether he was still the designer on the e34. Claus Luthe was chief designer from about '78 through the eighties and nineties including all of BMW's great modern cars.

Read about it here:

http://www.blankenese-world.de/kunde/dienst/edition/BMW-Designer.htm

where it will help to speak German, but is not necessary (hint: "die Luthe ara" means "the Luthe era"- you'll figure it out.)

Chris Bangle sucks, but lets face it, the company has changed, and not for the better. They actually think he's great- when sales are down and they've alienated their hard core, so go figure.

[DanQ]

Mr. Bangle, BMW's head designer, shrugs off suggestions that his designs have scared off buyers. "We're not trying to be everybody's darling," he says in an interview. "Sometimes you leave people behind. But then you also pick up some new people."

There are really two problems here. Bangle is just one of them. The other problem is idrive and the quality issues. Quality problems will lost customers real quick. Mr Bangle's attitude doesn't help though. He seems to think that they can afford to leave behind a loyal customer base to chase after a newer market of customers. Why can't you keep your current customer base while going after the new ones?

[tim]

They're too worried about going tit-for-tat on every electronic gizmo that the Lexus and Merc guys can come up with that have forgotten that they used to let form follow function, not the other way around. Given the inversion of priorities its no surprise that build quality and mechanical integrity have also gone by the wayside.

[Derek A.]

BMW has also created a different kind of consumer. I see it every day. Most BMW owners invested in their cars and held on to them for a number of years. These days I see far more customers not taking care of their cars and dumping them at the end of the lease. There is a far greater fear of owning a used BMW past the warranty period than in years prior.

[drum2430]

I'll just keep my e-34 in great condition and not ever have another car payment.

[John B.]

Take a look at the new BMW K12R, R12RT & ST and you'll see Bangle isn't the only designer at BMW that needs a permanent vacation. David Robb is on par with Bangle when it comes to "updating" the traditional look of BMW motorcycles. He didn't do too bad with the K12S as he stole most of it from Aprilia but his clean sheet bikes have been ugly for the most part. The mechanical problems plaguing the late model beemers have driven away many long time owners such as myself & many of my friends. BMW motorcycle sales in the U.S. were way off for 2004 with many stand alone BMW shops in serious financial trouble & many others taking on other brands of bikes. As a result of their poor performance resulting in a loss of market share BMWAG has cut the U.S. bike division's budget to the bone which will make it tough to properly promote the new models.

[John B.]

I'll just keep my e-34 in great condition and not ever have another car payment.

That would be my plan also. I could be quite happy driving this car for a long, long time.

[Qsilver7]

Make both of them Bast-Turds walk the plank for dragging us to where we DON"T want to go!!!! :D

I believe it was Von Hooy-"dopehead" that actually designed the new "look" of the recent BMW models...and Bangle gave it the stamp of "aack"-proval.

(rant off)

[callen]

Right Dan:

That's it.......the loyal will continue to buy the car. Also think that depreciation is going to kill the current cars....who wants to buy a used one of these and have to pay to get it fixed themselves......heck pre 95 models can be easily diagnosed and worked on...imagine a 2003 5 or 7 series. Then add to that the sytling....
Forget about it.

Callen

[callen]

Exactly....we are a disposable society.

[callen]

Drum:

my current strategy....parts are relatively inexpensive...problem is when it breaks down and your down a car......soooo now I have three BMW's...two E34's..one for me and one for my wife and a 89 735 as a back up and when I just want to cruise.

callen

[George M]

I have ranted about this adnausseum...how BMW has sold out to making money at the exclusion of well styled, purposeful sports sedans...their heritage. A unanomous chorus of contempt for BMW on this board for what has happened to the cars we have all loved. The company has clearly sank to an all time low. I will not purchase another BMW...even a used one. Any new car will likely be Japanese...from someone who has never owned one. Don't want to support a company I completely disagree with. Have you guys seen the new MB?...classically beautiful lines...makes the new Bimmers look like the POS they are....replete with all their bells and whistles half of which don't even work under warranty. Can you image owning one out of warranty?...a joke. The head people at BMW should be flogged for what they have done to the once great marque. BMW is making a boatload of money hustling the fat cat's wallet who has more money than brains and who craves the BMW badge for prestige and has to have the latest automotive techno-widget and meanwhile BMW is laughing all the way to the bank. I can hear the vice presidents in the board room at BMW now...what kind of $hit can be pile on the next 5 or 7 series to further increase purchase price to inflate our revenues and bonuses? Greed can be destructive...insult to injury.
George

[DaCan23]

He really must be an idiot, cause the customers you are losing are ones who have owned multiple BMWs and are die hard ethusiats, your only gaining the fad or popular thing customers who will jump ship to the next fad in the future...



Mr. Bangle, BMW's head designer, shrugs off suggestions that his designs have scared off buyers. "We're not trying to be everybody's darling," he says in an interview. "Sometimes you leave people behind. But then you also pick up some new people." <br>There are really two problems here. Bangle is just one of them. The other problem is idrive and the quality issues. Quality problems will lost customers real quick. Mr Bangle's attitude doesn't help though. He seems to think that they can afford to leave behind a loyal customer base to chase after a newer market of customers. Why can't you keep your current customer base while going after the new ones?

[Bellicose Right Winger]

Funny, I was certain I'd never get over the bland, rounded styling and complex electronics of E34's when they were introduced 15 years ago. I vowed NEVER to give up my E12. Now I own 2 E34's, but will admit to recently giving serious thought to an E39, inspite of the styling. I bet most of us will be driving E60's in 10-15 years for the same reason we're driving 15 year old BMW's now....they perform, they're reliable and maintainable by the serious DIYer. The fact that they just might turn heads is icing on the cake.

Paul Shovestul

[Gooch]

When I bought my e34 in '96 I was looking for a manual shift sedan with rear wheel drive. BMW made the only one. I also fell in love with the I6 motor because it actually looked easy to work on and it was. In less than 10 years competitors now offer more powerful 6 cylinder motors. A good example is the G35 and recently Cadillac.
I would luv to see BMW come out with another 535i and again focus on I6 HP. Do you realize that the new 525i's have less HP than my 1994 525i? A damn shame.

[ryan roopnarine]

When I bought my e34 in '96 I was looking for a manual shift sedan with rear wheel drive. BMW made the only one. I also fell in love with the I6 motor because it actually looked easy to work on and it was. In less than 10 years competitors now offer more powerful 6 cylinder motors. A good example is the G35 and recently Cadillac.
I would luv to see BMW come out with another 535i and again focus on I6 HP. Do you realize that the new 525i's have less HP than my 1994 525i? A damn shame.


i'm not sure where you got your hp numbers for a nu 525i, but i'm pretty sure that the number only decreased by 3 or 4 hp at most. the benefits of that NEW m5x is that the powerband for that engine is probably a lot more linear (ie noticeable in everyday use). the 2.5l engine size and hp is a insurance standard in many places in europe, so as a result, they probably aren't gonna mess with it too much. i personally consider the 3.5 engine dead ended, and think that the 3.0 is an acceptable replacement. most modern automakers are at or are edging past 3.0l v6 pushing 200hp. the 3.0 I6 seems in line (22x hp) with most other premium offerings in that displacement, while besting the non-premium makes. is this not the same situation as in the early 1990s with the acura legend/mercedes/m30 3.2-3.5l engines making 220ish horsepower? i dunno if its my relatively young age, but i always thought that the e34 was a little "stubby" looking from the side at 20ft or so. i thought that the e34 shape with the e32 length was the ideal one for one of these cars (i hate that notch in the trunk of the e32_. personally, i like the e39 5 a little more than the 34 because of the smoother transition off the hood onto the headlight plane (ours is square, theirs is round). i personally think the g35 is a "fast car" that they were able to refine to a remarkable point because of luck. i was innundated with nissan literature in 1999-2k for the then new maxima with the "amazing" 225 hp 3.0l v6. emphasis was on the engine and the resultant quickness of the car, making it a good deal. guess what? less than 2 years later 2k2 model, the maxima has a 3.5 engine making 255 something horsepower. two years. seemingly none of this hp making technology managed to make its way to the 3.5 v6 in the pathfinder, not until a notable deal later. i think that nissan was looking for horsepower to stick in things, and happened to find it in the 3.5, which they went about sticking in the maxima, altima, g35............ i don't think they were going for any balanced approach in the 3.5 cars, just a mechanically reliable, asthetically acceptable vehicle that happened to have a good amount of hp. anyway

i hate the e60, i don't think i'd ever overlook a mercedes e of the past 6 or seven years in favor of one.

[Gooch]

Your right, I think the new 2.5 liter motor in 186 HP. While BMW dicks around with 2.5 and 3 liter motors the japanese and americans now provide 6 cylinder engines with more power. Look at the Acura 3.2 liter motor or the Nissan 3.5. The BMW 3 liter is far behind (50 HP). I understand the European need for a 2.5 liter motor but why force us to a 4.5 liter v8 for comparable HP? Point is that I'd really like to see BMW have comparable performance with its I6 vs the Japanese v6 instead of where the focus is today.
I did want to hold on to my E34 until I moved on to an E39 530im but will now seriously consider an Acura or Infinity next purchase.

[DaCan23]

They are comin back w/ an I-6 3.5L I think in 2006, first in 6 series then 5 I believe