Auxiliary water pump testing...

[Claude]

Winter coming soon and i still have a cooling problem that i did not succed to poinpoint and solve.

My car is a 535-1989 americain version, manufactured 03/89. I need diagram and your tought about that.
I suspect that the water pump is defective so i tried to test it. But i encountered the following bugs / strange situations:

1) i have the Bently manual but can't found out a diagram that show how exactly the aux. water pump is wired, details should be in pages EWD-123, 123, 124 but no trace at all of the water pump !! Does someone have access to an electronic version of a complete electrical diagram ?

2) when i test the waterpump motor (is internal resistor) i've got 100-150 ohms.

3) when i apply 12 volts directly to the pump respecting the polarization noting happend (no noise, no spark, no nothing) pump seems dead.

4) When i check the voltage and ground conditions at the connector feeding the waterpump, i've got the following all the time whatever the contact key position (either off, or the car running): I have a continuous ground condition on the brun wire (i think it's normal) but never get a 12 volts condition on the positive wire (red/blu/yel). I've got same results whatever the dial setting is at medium heat or at max clockwise position.

5) My waterpump relay test good (windding resistor in the range of 10 ohms).
I also substitute relay #8 (the waterpump one) with relay #4 (the blower one) they are identical, got no change (blower still work fine, never a 12 volt on the waterpump connector).

6) I don't hear any noise either from the water valves but my diagnostic is that they are working normaly: when i raise the temperature setting on either side let say 5 deg more i feel almost immediatly a change in temp of the blowing air, but it gradualy fade out and stabilise until i settle to a higher temp. again and it fade out again. Net result is like if i want a 20deg C temp i must settle to 25 or more.

7) When i push the conductor temp dial setting fully clock wise i've got massive heat on both sides

Air blower is working normally in all position (0,1,2,3,4) i changed my sword last automn.

I suspected also my air/climate control unit, so i got an other one (brand new in BMW box) from Malaisia on eBay, part #64 11 8 390 002, supposed to replace those in any E34 before 01/90. I make the substitution without any amelioration.

I have a diagram block showing the 1HKR1 air / climate control module it help understand interactions between this control unit and interconnected pieces,

Any hint ?

[Jehu]

heres a diagram. if the pump is dead its an easy replace. there's one on ebay right now here

[Bill R.]

fuses feeding both sides of the relay, but since your motor doesn't run even when wired direct, you have a bad motor anyway. Do you have power feeding into the relay;

Winter coming soon and i still have a cooling problem that i did not succed to poinpoint and solve.

My car is a 535-1989 americain version, manufactured 03/89. I need diagram and your tought about that.
I suspect that the water pump is defective so i tried to test it. But i encountered the following bugs / strange situations:

1) i have the Bently manual but can't found out a diagram that show how exactly the aux. water pump is wired, details should be in pages EWD-123, 123, 124 but no trace at all of the water pump !! Does someone have access to an electronic version of a complete electrical diagram ?

2) when i test the waterpump motor (is internal resistor) i've got 100-150 ohms.

3) when i apply 12 volts directly to the pump respecting the polarization noting happend (no noise, no spark, no nothing) pump seems dead.

4) When i check the voltage and ground conditions at the connector feeding the waterpump, i've got the following all the time whatever the contact key position (either off, or the car running): I have a continuous ground condition on the brun wire (i think it's normal) but never get a 12 volts condition on the positive wire (red/blu/yel). I've got same results whatever the dial setting is at medium heat or at max clockwise position.

5) My waterpump relay test good (windding resistor in the range of 10 ohms).
I also substitute relay #8 (the waterpump one) with relay #4 (the blower one) they are identical, got no change (blower still work fine, never a 12 volt on the waterpump connector).

6) I don't hear any noise either from the water valves but my diagnostic is that they are working normaly: when i raise the temperature setting on either side let say 5 deg more i feel almost immediatly a change in temp of the blowing air, but it gradualy fade out and stabilise until i settle to a higher temp. again and it fade out again. Net result is like if i want a 20deg C temp i must settle to 25 or more.

7) When i push the conductor temp dial setting fully clock wise i've got massive heat on both sides

Air blower is working normally in all position (0,1,2,3,4) i changed my sword last automn.

I suspected also my air/climate control unit, so i got an other one (brand new in BMW box) from Malaisia on eBay, part #64 11 8 390 002, supposed to replace those in any E34 before 01/90. I make the substitution without any amelioration.

I have a diagram block showing the 1HKR1 air / climate control module it help understand interactions between this control unit and interconnected pieces,

Any hint ?

[Claude]

fuses feeding both sides of the relay, but since your motor doesn't run even when wired direct, you have a bad motor anyway. Do you have power feeding into the relay;

Thanks for your diagram Bill it really help. I have check both fuses and they are OK, but haven't check if there is voltage at the relay base, i'll do that. If not, it's to say that i have a cabling problem (no continuity from the fuses) but i don't see what may have cause that.

Q1- According to you may i check with an analogue ohm meter the ground condition that the integrated climate control module is suppose to give on pin 4/86 of the relay ?

Q2- having 100-150 ohms between the motor winding i was expected some reaction when applying directly to it the 12 volts and the ground... but niet... That's probably a serie motor with carbon brushs and those are probably completly worn out. Is this motor a seal one ? could we simply replace the brushs ?

[Claude]

heres a diagram. if the pump is dead its an easy replace. there's one on ebay right now here

Thanks for the eBay link Jesu.

[Claude]

fuses feeding both sides of the relay, but since your motor doesn't run even when wired direct, you have a bad motor anyway. Do you have power feeding into the relay;

I found out... I got 12v directly to the pump wire, my previous statement was wrong because i was testing that specific condition with the contact key in position 2 (not in start position or car running), but it happen that the 12 volts appears ONLY when the car is running.

That's a good new, so no relay or cabling problem

I also tested the continuity / internal resistor of the water valve relay, both are good.

I tried again to feed the water pump directly with 12 v but this time i put a stethoscope on the water pump... heard nothing.

My conclusion: Even if i measure 100-150 ohms of resistance on the pump, it's not operational / no good, i'll have to replace it.

Q: Because i did'nt had a complete open condition (infinite resistance) of the water pump, is it possible that the pump be good and so quiet that it generate no noise at all when it operates ?

[Sidney Rough-Diamond]

My pump seems to be working all the time with the ignition on and whatever combination of the heater dials. This isn't quite right, correct ?

[DaveVoorhis]

Does someone have access to an electronic version of a complete electrical diagram ?

http://shark.armchair.mb.ca/~dave/BMW

[RussC]

My pump seems to be working all the time with the ignition on and whatever combination of the heater dials. This isn't quite right, correct ?

Does your pump vibrate?
Different version of the IKHR may operate the pump differently?

RussC

[Sidney Rough-Diamond]

Does your pump vibrate?
Different version of the IKHR may operate the pump differently?

RussC

It's very noisey, that's for sure.Car is a 1994 540 UK car.