0W-30, 0W-40, 15W-50......I'm lost

[Dick Schneiders]

"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt." There is a picture of Mark Twain and a facsimile of his signature under it.

No mention of Sam Clemens, though.

Thanks for providing who the quote was, never knew it was the amazing Samual Clemens.

[Dick Schneiders]

It is one of the few shirts I wear that people actually stop and read. I have gotten some interesting comments about it, also.

I use Mobil One 0w-40 in one 1991 525i and 15w-50 in the other, at least for now. The 15w-50 was fine in the winter, but I did notice a slight more start up difficulty and the gas mileage is slightly lower. I used to use 10w-30 in all my cars, but I like the 0w-40 better and will probably go to it for the other 525i at my next oil change.

Dick Schneiders

Man, you stay off the board for day and and the guests start fighting with each other over oil grades. Cool. I want Dick's T shirt and I use 0w-40 all year round.

[Bill R.]

is an indicator of the quality of the base stocks used and it is directly tied to volatility of an oil. IE the higher the flash point the lower the volatility leading to less vaporization of the lighter parts of the oil, ie lower consumption, more stable viscosity as it ages. So i would consider flash point to be an important factor in determining the quality of a particular oil
And there is really no need for you to be such a rude **** when you disagree with someone on here.

Rick,

Please show me you really aren't that dense!!!

The topic was raised about oil flash point relating to the quality of an oil. I explained that it really tells you nothing, similar to how the width of a tire tells you nothing about the handling of a car, much less the quality the tire or car that it placed.

You responded that "Wider tires mean better handling. Don't you agree?" I then explained, that no, wider tires do not automatically mean better handling and cited an extreme example as evidence to support my example. I will remind you again we are discussing the concept of taking one fact in a vacuum. You then turn around and start in on a diatribe concerning aspect ratios, rims, and then about oil quality and weights.

I would suggest you go back and reread the thread, as it seems as if the cold weather in Chicago has done more than make your oil thick. Hopefully after a couple of more readings you will grasp my original post and explanation. Just in case you don't, I would suggest if you want to continue this discussion that you keep in mind the quote "it is better to be silient and thought a fool, than to open your mouth and prove it."

Cary

[Hector]

is an indicator of the quality of the base stocks used and it is directly tied to volatility of an oil. IE the higher the flash point the lower the volatility leading to less vaporization of the lighter parts of the oil, ie lower consumption, more stable viscosity as it ages. So i would consider flash point to be an important factor in determining the quality of a particular oil
And there is really no need for you to be such a rude **** when you disagree with someone on here.

[Unregistered]

is an indicator of the quality of the base stocks used and it is directly tied to volatility of an oil. IE the higher the flash point the lower the volatility leading to less vaporization of the lighter parts of the oil, ie lower consumption, more stable viscosity as it ages. So i would consider flash point to be an important factor in determining the quality of a particular oil
And there is really no need for you to be such a rude **** when you disagree with someone on here.

Bill, if you read the thread, you will notice that Rick came swaggering in and wished to pursue an arguement in a rather rude manner. His rudeness was met in kind by my response. Of course you chose to degrade if further by refering to me as a "****". I guess when your not happy, you go around calling people names. I hate to tell you, but your calling me a "****" does nothing but show that you have some issues. I would guess that you are about 25 and not really yet secure with who you are. Don't worry, some kids, some age, and you will grow out of it.

Addressing your comment about flash point here is some more language describing what the NOACK Volitility Test (ASTM-5800) is:

"Volatility is measured by the principal, European test called NOACK, is the amount of oil lost (the light molecules) over time at a given temperature and pressure. It has a direct impact on high temperature engine oil effectiveness -- especially on viscosity, emissions and oil consumption. Today's oils have a NOACK volatility limit of 22 percent. Volatility losses for the coming ILSAC GF-3 oils -- due on store shelves just after the turn of the century -- could quite possibly be limited to 15 percent for all grades.

When an oil suffers from high volatility, and the lighter molecules evaporate, the oil thickens gradually getting out of "spec" and adversely effecting the performance of the lubricant and placing the engine at risk."

If you read that carefully, you will see that it is what you just described as the reason that you look at flash points. Instead you should be looking at Noack Volitility. Flash points bear very little relationship to evaporative losses. They are used primarly for used oil analysis. Here is a link to an extended discription of flash point use: http://www.practicingoilanalysis.com...up=Maintenance

Cary

[Hector]

because you just got complimented. There is major testosterone-releasing to be done...

[632 Regal]

Im undecided if this is real or an attempt to **** with people here, knowledge is a great asset but claiming someone is dense for whatever reason does equate to a **** head. Not signing up and being a guest is fine, but to come in and claim superior knowledge at the expense of regulars that really try to help others is uncalled for. In other words you and your knowledge is welcome but take it easy.

or...

you are just a ****HEAD.

Welcome to our humble board.

[Unregistered]

but to come in and claim superior knowledge at the expense of regulars that really try to help others is uncalled for. In other words you and your knowledge is welcome but take it easy.

or...

you are just a ****HEAD.

Welcome to our humble board.

Where did I claim some type of superior knowledge? I pointed out in a nice matter that Mr. Rick had some of his facts incorrect. Here is exactly what I wrote:

"You can use 15w-50 for summer, but there is no need to. I would use 0w-40 year around and not worry about it. BTW, saying an oil is better than another because of a higher flash point is like saying that car is better than another because it has wider tires. Doesn't tell you anything important. Also, 0w-40 will pump much better than 15w-50 at cold tempuratures, the only advantage the 15w-50 has is higher film strength at high temps."

In turn I received this response:

"Better car? Wider tires? Doesn't tell you anything important? Every part (small or large) is a factor on car or oil. Wider tires mean better handling. Don't you agree? Higher flash point means higher resistant before it turns to vapor. Don't you agree? "

To which I said:

"Okay, lets break this down. A lotus Elise has little 205 section tires, a Hummer H2 has 315 section tires, so the Hummer handles better right!!! According to your logic it does. A single fact in a vacuum tells you nothing.

In the case of flash point, it tells you nothing except the tempurature that the oil has to be heated until it puts off enough vapors for them to ignite when a flame is held over the oil. It is, quite frankly the most meaningless number for oil specs.

The number that tells you how much an oil is likely to vaporize is the NOAK Volitility Number. This tells you when oil is heated to a certain tempurature for a certain length of time, how much in percent of the oil boils (turns to vapor) off. Good Noak numbers are below 8%, although the API allows up to 15% for SL rated oils.

If you are looking for good quality oils, you should be looking for the Europe Approvals. Good Ones to look for:

ACEA A5 (Long life thin oils)
ACEA A3 (Long Life heavier oils; BMW-LL spec and Mercedes 229 spec oils are all A3 Rated)
Mercedes 229.3 and/or 229.5

API ratings are basically meaningless and very low standards. "

Mr. Rick came back and took the point off topic (the point being that flash point tells you little about an oil) and fired of the following volley:

"Nice logic?!?! So you never heard of people upgrading their RIMS+TIRES for better performance? Hummer H2 does have wide 315 but they are 70 tall compare to 40 or 45 for Lotus. I'm sure if you put some low profile and even wider tires on a Hummer H2, it would handle better than before... But why would you want to? They are two completely different autos for different use. O.K. it is hard to compare 0W-40 to 15W-50 since they are different and used for different reasons. But why would you want to use Mobil 1 15W-50 if Mobil 1 0W-40 outperforms in almost all category? Plus, BMW service manager from two different dealer DON'T recommend 15W-50 for E34 M50 or M20 here in Chicago, specially in winter. I wouldn't use 15W-50 on my E34 M50 unless I live in very hot climate. I have upgraded to Mobil 1 0W-40 few months ago and my car runs better and I don't have the annoying lifter noise during start-up anymore. Like many things, OILS DO GET BETTER AND IMPROVE WITH TECHNOLOGY. "

It was at that point I told him he was dense, because he just seemed to want to ignore the point. I would love you to point me to where I proclaimed my superior knowledge, especially in relationship to others. Unlike some others, I have stuck to the subject which was oil, and become what constitutes a better oil (or rather what numbers do not).

Cary

[scott540]

I'm having some really wicked flashbacks here. It's like 1999 and I just got my first 5 series. I'm on some forum that was called roadflea or some **** like that and all of these idiots kept arguing about **** that doesn't really matter when all I wanted to know was what oil to use while attempting my first oil change in the 540 and where to buy a Bentley. All these idiots kept calling each other names while not using any of their own names. Bill are you really only 25? With all the helpful free knowledge you give out, I thought you would be at least 30.

Somebody ban Rick and Cary from here cause like Regal said...

[Rick L]

Can’t we just get along? O.K. guys… Maybe my head is little dense from the cold weather in Chicago. Summer is near and I’m looking forward to it! I had my Bimmer nicely detailed today and ready for summer! Hope it doesn’t rain tonight…