Grand Master
What the hell is 'british' horse power?Originally Posted by repenttokyo
like seriously wtf? I think he was refering to brake horse power, you know the amount of power minus drive train losses?
2 Grand Master
? British horsepower is equal to 746 watts, it's the original system used in Britain to measure horsepower, and it differs from other measurement units.
You will notice that I also mentioned brake horsepower, but brake horsepower has not been used by North American automanufacturers for a very long time - 40 years. THat was my point. We used SAE net and corrected SAE net. Brake horsepower is an outdated form of measurement.
3 Grand Master
First, my humble apologies. The link you provided does work - I just got a stupid pop-up in the way. And its an interesting article. I was indeed talking about brake horse power. With regard to the 523/525, Parkers lists only the 523 from '96 to 2000 but from the 2000 ( UK 'W' plate) it lists both to 2003. I had thought the 523 was just a lower spec than the 525 but both are listed in SE form. Shows how wrong you can be
5-10 Grand Master
LOL what? British horsepower? LOL huh?
BHP = brake horsepower. Anytime you see a horsepower figure mentioned by a car manufacturer its is bhp, or brake horsepower, aka horsepower at the flywheel before drivetrain loss. Its the only horsepower figure used - no manufacturer quotes "wheel horsepower". SAE is just is just a group that devised the standard - the term "SAE HP" is still "BHP" by definition. It is power at the flywheel before gearbox and drivetrain loss. That's exactly what BHP is. SAE gross and net hp is a trick to lower horsepower ratings for insurance quoting in the early 70's.
All engines from all manufacturers are quoted bhp at the flywheel you can call it SAE net power if you want, or "SAE HP" if you want, but its still flywheel brake horsepower.
And you're right I forgot about the current cars. But its just like the older cars.
530 = 3.0L 528 = 3.0 detuned
525 = 2.5L 523 = 2.5 detuned
same tradition, I merely forgot about the latest batch.
Last edited by Jon K; 09-03-2008 at 10:20 AM.
2 Grand Master
it was intended as a joke, but no one got it.
it might 'mean' the same thing, but the term BHP is rarely used on our continent, while it is commonly used in Europe
the correction that was made in 2005 was because there were no clear standards as to what the difference was betweeen sae net and gross. Manufacturers were able to fudge the numbers quite a bit when reporting SAE net and there was no 'standard' for other car companies to call them out on. When the new measurement standards were released in 2005, many car companies saw drops in reported power, although a few, like general motors saw gains because they had been anticipating the correction.
SAE gross and net are not a 'trick'...it was two different ways of measuring power.
that may be, but it's not a term that many people use on this side of the ocean.
The 528 is not a detuned 3.0. It actually makes the same horsepower that the 530 did (around 230), but they just changed the name - probably so that it wasn't too close-sounding to the 535.
And there are no 525's currently for sale in NA.
it certainly doesn't help when BMW changes their naming nomenclature every few years either!
Last edited by repenttokyo; 09-03-2008 at 10:37 AM.
2 Grand Master
it's super confusing and it's weird how BMW constantly decides to change their branding.First, my humble apologies. The link you provided does work - I just got a stupid pop-up in the way. And its an interesting article. I was indeed talking about brake horse power. With regard to the 523/525, Parkers lists only the 523 from '96 to 2000 but from the 2000 ( UK 'W' plate) it lists both to 2003. I had thought the 523 was just a lower spec than the 525 but both are listed in SE form. Shows how wrong you can be
5-10 Grand Master
No not currently - I was talking about the E39 525 -> 523, just like E60 530 -> 528.
And there are no 525's currently for sale in NA.
I am confused what 528 and 530 are you comparing?
The E39 528 made like 193 hp, the 530 made 230 hp and used completely different engines (M52TU vs M54)
2004 - 2005 had an E60 525 which made 184 hp, and a 530i which made 225 using the M54B25 and M54B30 engines respectively.
In 2006 BMW switched to the more modern N52 engine, which had a 525i and 530i (N52B25 and N52B30). 215 hp vs 255 hp.
Then finally they released the E60 528i in 2007 and gave it the N52B30 (same engine code as 530i) except it makes 230 hp not the 255 hp that the 530i makes - thus, its a detuned 530i motor... even if it is 3.0L. BMW tends to stick to their numbering in terms of performance if not engine size. Since the run of N52B30s they probably didn't want to shrink the motor to 2.8 or anything and rather just detune it some for more economic performance.
Last edited by Jon K; 09-03-2008 at 11:37 AM.
2 Grand Master
I was comparing the M54B30 to the current engine in the 528, the N52B30. The M54 was the first engine in the E60 530 - 04/05 - then it went to the more power version of the N52, then back to the weak N52.
5-10 Grand Master
Its not a weak N52. Its the same N52 with a detune, like I said.
Its literally the same engine in the N52 530 and the N52 528 - They detune the engines to keep performance in check with the modeling. People who buy the "528 N52" are looking for a good car with decent economy, else they'd buy the 535 or 550i.
The M54B30 and N52B30 in the 528 make the same power on paper but the curves are way different (infinitely variable valve timing on the N52) and the economy is improved.
2 Grand Master
weak as in less horsepower.
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